LOL. dude you crack me up. I must admit that I'm about 50/50 on enjoying your puzzles. But that is just my opinion... which is about as useful as a paper umbrella.

You did forget one though...

11) Mr. "All of my puzzles rock... how dare anyone not like them"

Its all good. I was in stitches when all the groans and negative comments were put up on my first puzzle. Some people can really get irate about the darnedest things.

Although you do have a point about common complaints, I don't think that *commenting* on some of those issues automatically constitutes complaining. For people who are still struggling, some of those comments can provide salt about what should or should not be considered in searching for the answer. It helps me to know that there could be spelling issues or red herrings so I don't just scrap my answer when it doesn't take it.

#5 in your top ten is very funny!

I don't think I've ever seen a #1-type comment.

And I agree with comment [2]princessproton; some negative comments provide a lot of salt.

Just trying to be funny ... I don't have a complex or anything like that ... really, I don't ...

(And before anyone else points it out, yes, I see the irony in complaining about complainers.)

probably should bring this back up

http://www.tanga.com/forum/blogs/1369-Open_letter_to_disgruntled_puzzlers

That felt good just to read it! I've been on both ends of this and I can say it can hurt when you feel the puzzle is strong, and even more frustrating when your puzzle is faulty. Personally I've been asking some of the heavyweights to take a look at my puzzles and offer input. It's helped a ton!

What about a new list?

You know your puzzle is in trouble when:
1. After 5 minutes there are no comments
2. Arnott is the first poster with, "huh?"
3. Murdoctor asks for salt with the solve method
4. Complainers mention how the word is too obscure and not guessable
5. Jewelia sends you a TG that you should have tested the answer first
any more?

dfmurphy - excellent points

[5] I have that bookmarked, just in case, for whenever my next puzzle is published!

And [6] Your new list is the scary side of having one published!

How do you think you know #8? You can't tell if someone has submitted a puzzle, only if they have had one published.

I think knowing how to take criticism and comments goes a long way in diffusing "complaints." Most of the time criticism turns ugly when there is arguing over it.

[6] Love the avatar ... I've been meaning to say someting, but kept forgetting.

I recently received "This was one the worst puzzles I've seen on Tanga" in the comments of my puzzle.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but that is a bit harsh (in MY opinion).

Yeah, but if I remember correctly, threehojos, after I read that it turned out the poster rarely solved puzzles. I always check those statements. Just like a lot of the people who complain about what is for sale don't buy the games when they are up, some people don't solve enough puzzles. They get easier the longer you do them. At first you can't figure out a thing and then you start to see the way puzzle makers think. I always take that into account. When Arnott told me I had this or that in a puzzle that I didn't realize, I took it more seriously than just a random person who solves puzzles once in a while. More experience.

I make puzzles knowing not everyone will like it.
I solve puzzles knowing not everyone will like it.
I comment knowing not everyone will like it.
I like spicy food. I do not like mint ice cream.
Such is life... which we should not take too seriously since no one makes it out alive anyway.

[10] Don't worry, I hold that distinction proudly and I challenge anyone to out do me. I also enjoy reading the comments that are salt only if you know the answer. Many in this thread already are famous for it.
[12] I agree

[10] I'm waiting for the time when I can say "this was the worst puzzle ever" and it's somehow salt. That'll teach 'em.

[11][12][13][14] Yeah, the person who wrote it has solved 250 or so puzzles and has about 1500 points. I see what you mean. I didn't really take it to heart, just wanted to join in this discussion and post the worst comment I have ever gotten. I'm waaaaaaaay over it! It's all good! :)

[15] 250 is enough to know better. This person is just a jerk.

I love the "this is not a puzzle and shouldn't be on Tanga" comments on the 20 question easy a few days ago

made me laugh...i don't think tanga has ever actually defined what should and shouldn't be on there and think since its their website, they can probably post any time of puzzle\game they want...

[14] that could be a cryptopix.

[14] Now I'm thinking of how to make that a puzzle. This Tanga thing is an addiction...I need to call somebody.

[18] Great idea.

Unofficial competition. Everyone has until Wednesday at midnight central time to submit a cryptopix with the answer "this is the worst puzzle ever". In accordance with the answer, the more obscure the images/solve methods used, the better. I will contact renfurdson about this and see if he's down with it. Winner will be dubbed the WORST PUZZLEMAKER OF ALL TANGA. What do y'all think?

I think I can be the worst!!

[21] You're on!

Couple of more things. People should probably have at least 3 chances to prove how terrible they are, so a 3 submission limit. Other things will probably pop up.

[20] OMG too funny!! I'm in!

[20] I've already got my first done... but I think I can do worse. :)

Can I let my kids each make one? They make some really obscure and unsolvable puzzles when they try.

[20] I just finished one - what a hoot!
[28] yes, where are we sending these?

[24] I'm the same way. I suck at solving.

[25] That's the spirit!

[26] Sounds like a winner (loser?) to me.

[27] You have reaffirmed my faith in humanity.

[28] I just kind of made this up on the spot, so is it alright if I say that I'm not really sure yet? I can adjust the deadline as more information comes in. I'd like to judge, but I want to see what the Tanga brass has to say. If we want to be truly unoffical, then yeah, I can judge it. But if we bump it up a notch, maybe Aaron will actually publish the WORST PUZZLE OF ALL TANGA and--who knows?--provide a little profile award.

I welcome input on this, of course.

Ok ... I've got one for this little shin-dig and it almost made me throw up a few times while preparing it.

I'm serious.

I've done a second one and really want to see everyone else's!
[31] That's a good idea - like we used to be able to do in the Tanga Times! Hopefully Aaron can help us with this one.

I have just created the worst puzzle ever! Ducky thinks his is worse but mine is definitely awful. I giggled the entire time I made it.

OK, I think Ducky and I may have made an even worse one together.

[31] & [33] We definitely need a new thread where whoever wants to participate can upload images for all to see. Though I must say, I don't know who would actually *want* to see these entries. Participants, judges, casual observers... There are no winners here.

UPDATE: Aaron has responded that the image embedding thread is a good way to go, but hasn't offered details on implementation yet. We shall see.

Edited.

Just testing something.

[12] Wait, you don't like mint ice cream? I'm not so sure if I can accept the rest of your opinions now.

[37] Used to, there was a little link that said "upload image" near the where the "flag" and "edit" options on comments are now, but the admins always had to activate it.

I have one!!! Should I post it here? Are we starting a new thread?!

Hope wants me to post it now. Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4uVEd1k0D0

Prepare to be worst-ed/amazed.

OK, are you all really trying to unseat me here? I mean, my colors puzzle was pretty bad, some even said worse than the metatanga. I take that crappy puzzle very seriously. Many of you are probably over thinking it right now. Take out that back ground! Use multiple peer reviewed sites as reference and don't check your solution before submitting. It isn't easy people. And nothing rhymes with orange. Besides, Have you googled "tanga" lately? Fit THAT in a cryptopix!

[41] ROFLMAO!

[6] 5. Jewelia sends you a TG that you should have tested the answer first:

Although I don't recall ever telling any one else to "test the answer," I actually used to do that, until someone said that doing so took away the "First Place" spot. Is that true--even if the puzzle hasn't been published yet? I'd like to go back to doing that, because just having someone test-solve didn't catch the apostrophe problem.

OK, so we're submitting the "WOWWE" (pronounced wowwie!) as normal or are we to post here for hilarity? Mine has Bill Clinton in it...beat that Murdoctor! ...you will anyway...

Mine also has Bill Clinton! I wonder if he is in the same place. Bush is in mine also.

[44] [45] Yeah?
Well, mine has more obscure references than that! The graphic, not the video...

New thread started:

http://tanga.com/forum/blogs/1408-Contest_Worst_Puzzle_Ever

[44] Are you calling me out??? LOL

Funny, I just submitted a hypercross yesterday with Bill Clinton in it.

Oh, and thanks for the mention on the OTHER list of "when you know your puzzle is in trouble"... that made me chuckle.

Stumbled across this thread and while it eventually digresses into the "worst puzzle ever" contest, I found the initial list and related comments very funny and wanted to add to it.

I recently had a discussion with a commenter who felt his comments were honest and constructive. I found them rude. We talked about it for awhile and the discussion was insightful. I don't think we will ever agree with each other on the topic and unfortunately, I believe he decided to button up and not comment anymore. The reason I say "unfortunately" is because that's his personality, you know? In a way, I kind of miss his comments because I'd gotten to where I could guess which puzzles he wouldn't like and it was almost a game in and of itself to see if I was right and to see how vehemently he might express his feelings.

In reference to [10] and [11], I recently had someone comment on one of my puzzle that it was "a waste of time" and he was abandoning it. I went to his profile to send him a TG with help and realized that he had not yet solved ANY PUZZLES on Tanga! lol At that point, I decided that the time wasting activity was Tanga puzzles in general and not my puzzle in particular and he probably wasn't really interested in solving it anyway. I don't know why he picked that particular puzzle to try and then comment on. A OWW is a strange place to start your puzzle-solving career.

At any rate, I'm curious what "current" puzzlemakers and solvers think of complaints. And whether you think CWarrior's initial list is still accurate. (I think it is).

Also, steph's list in [6] is so true! My 2nd ever featured OWW was very hard and there were NO comments for something like 20 minutes. My first one had been such a big success, that I was nearly in a panic for that 2nd one. I've calmed down considerably now. :)

[6] really cracked me up.

I have a current favorite pet peeve, which I'll call "#57 - Too easy." That is what a friend told me in regular email after she looked at one of my puzzles. Frankly, I like the mix of easy and hard stuff, and especially feel the pain of newbies who are desperately trying to get the hang of the 3 puzzle types. For me, there isn't a puzzle that's "too easy". I even got a kick out of the one Arnott did for New Year's day where he told us what to type for the answer. http://www.tanga.com/puzzles/7543-1-1-2011

In general, the commenters themselves are providing a lot of the entertainment. I love when they go off on tangents and other people chime in.

[50] I too enjoy the comments... unless it's just a cut&paste of your solve time and rank. I don't understand the point to that unless you were 1st or got the last bonus point or maybe you add something to it or alter it to make it funny. If you cut&paste the fact that it took you 33 minutes and 12 seconds and you were the 68th solver, I'm not sure why that's of interest to the rest of us. But I've learned to just read on to find the more interesting comments.

Imagine my shock when I realized that this thread was nearly 3 years old.

I figured it was recent.

[51] I enjoy the comments too. I think that's where the Tanga "community" actually exists.

I was rather aghast when my recent hyper had so many people complaining about how hard #2 was. But eventually, the comments just kept going and going, and I realized that the puzzle had actually received the second largest number of comments on a Hypercross ever. At that point, I decided that maybe, just maybe, it was a good thing. Lots of people got to come together, offer each other help, commiserate, etc. Perhaps people had fun commenting on the puzzle, which in my mind at least, mitigated some of the frustration people had over the puzzle itself.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that all puzzles should be so hard that people have to give each other salt to solve them, but I remember when Tanga started and renfurdson's puzzles were so hard that everyone sat around for hours trying to figure them out. BGG had a thread that ran for months straight dedicated to people trying to solve the puzzles. It was fun.

OK, I've gotten way off topic now, so let me see if I can get back to the main point. People on this site, as well as people in real life, are going to say mean things. The best thing to do is just what you do in real life: consider the source, weigh the argument, and don't take everything personally. And remember, in any argument or discussion, the first person that resorts to an ad hominem attack is the loser :o)

I just thought of another one that CWarrior left off. The person that complains about a hypercross being too long.

(I have a feeling Arnott is chuckling to himself because he knows my proclivity to build them large).

But, really, if I'm enjoying something, I don't want it to be over sooner - I want it to keep going! I am much more likely to get to the end of a hyper going "ah, man! I want more!" then to be thinking "well it's about time."

Now, that's assuming the hyper is GOOD and isn't sending me to google every other clue. But occasionally I'll see comments where the person hasn't even attempted the puzzle, just declared it too long and thus not worth it.

I don't get that.

[53] It's a common effect in games where one person comes up with a puzzle/riddle and everyone else tries to solve it. At first it's a questions of who can come up with the solution first. If the puzzle is hard enough the solvers are more-or-less forced to team up against the "common enemy".

I've seen this happen a lot in pattern-matching / logic games like Zendo and Eleusis.

What some people fail to recognize is that the "enemy" is the puzzle itself. Instead they demonize the puzzle maker. Even though word #2 in your puzzle WAS a bit of a groaner once I got it, I'm really quite impressed with that puzzle as a whole, INCLUDING #2. I really liked "nasal huts". :-)

[51] I admit that I'm guilty of cutting-and-pasting my solve time more often than is probably interesting. Point taken.

I had totally forgotten about this thread ... and cracked myself up when I read the original list.

In reference to [56] about Hypercrosses that are supposedly too long... I'm all for them. I do (and often finsh) the crossword in the newspaper each day, so that has kinda colored my opinion of how long a crossword type puzzle should be. 12-15 words??? Ptui! :-) If someone is willing to put together 30 odd pictures for a Hypercross, I say bring it on.

Maybe we can take one day a week and declare it Long Hypercross day. Whaddya think... Sunday night? Keep everyone up late so we're groggy at work Monday? :-)

[60] Hah! I love it! My husband is also a standard crossword fan so he welcomes the longer hypercrosses as well. The mods want you to keep it around 16-17 or less. I always seem to end up at 18-20 or so. :)

To be fair to the mods, they are right in their assessment that it's better to have 12 really solid clues than 16 that include some clunkers.

I just submitted one that was 37 (which is what prompted me remembering the complaints). The size was dictated by the grid - I was going for something in particular. So at least I know ryanker will enjoy it if it ever sees the light of day.

I'm one of the "often won't try the HC because it's too long" guys ... I cannot imagine a puzzle with 37 clues being worthy of an attempt on this site.

Now, I love crosswords and I've often got a couple going at any given time including some that take a few days to finish. It's not the size of the puzzle ... it's the mechanism for solving it. 37 clues equals about 250 boxes (rough guess) and you get no help from the system. They might be wonderful clues and a lot of fun, but I know myself well enough to know that if I type in that many clues and it won't go, then the fun is gone and the frustration is high. The potential payoff is not worth of the potential letdown.

Despite all of Tanga's investment in prettying things up around here, the HC page still feels like 1995. We've all seen the apps on Facebook and how slick they are. Solving an HC on Tanga is nothing like solving a word puzzle on Facebook. Maybe the comparison is unfair and/or unkind, but I think it's valid.

[62][63] Well, another mod peeked at it and said it was fun... :)

That said, I've learned not to go over 18-20 if it's just a thematic thing. Better to leave out the weaker ones or make a second puzzle. And even better to get it down below 17. In this particular puzzle though, I was building a picture with the grid. I could have reduced the number of clues to a paltry 29, I think, but then instead of cluing, say, "apple", I would have been cluing some obscure word that would send you to google. And by my assessment, that would have reduced the fun much more than the extra clues. So all the clues are really, really easy - they are just there to get you to uncover the pattern in the grid. *shrug*

I hope I haven't jinxed it by talking about it in this thread. A puzzle that big takes some time. :)

If I might try pick up and run with some ideas from [64]...

Some puzzle makers have tried to unnecessarily inflate their word count. I think we can agree that such a practice isn't worth the trouble. It just doesn't make the puzzle any funner. On the other hand, IF there's a thematic reason for a a lot of words, it would be just as bad an idea to unnecessarily limit the word count just for the sake of staying within some arbitrary limit.

[66] You were just looking for a place to post that, weren't you? ;-)

[64] I get the picture thing ... that's different. There's only so much you can do with the HC interface after all, so thinking outside of the box is a cool thing. I'll try a puzzle that's novel ... just not a puzzle that is a novel.